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	<title>Comments for Project Streetliner</title>
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	<link>http://www.projectstreetliner.com</link>
	<description>A custom tilting trike commuter vehicle based on scooter components</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 28 Aug 2010 22:55:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing contributor Nate Erickson by Zeb</title>
		<link>http://www.projectstreetliner.com/miscellaneous/introducing-contributor-nate-erickson/comment-page-1/#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Aug 2010 22:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.projectstreetliner.com/?p=667#comment-228</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your reply!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your reply!</p>
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		<title>Comment on So why is tilting so important? by Nathaniel Salzman</title>
		<link>http://www.projectstreetliner.com/research/so-why-is-tilting-so-important/comment-page-1/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathaniel Salzman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.projectstreetliner.com/?p=134#comment-227</guid>
		<description>I could do a lot of things if I did a lot of things. I&#039;m really interested in having more of a cabin motorcycle experience than a tiny car experience. The lean is essential to that. It also lets me have high seed turning stability without having to put 1500 lbs of batteries in the floor of my vehicle. My target is &lt;600 lbs. At that benchmark, something perhaps more like the Myers Motors commuter might be in order, but again, I want more of a moto experience but without the expense of an Ecomobile or Monotracer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could do a lot of things if I did a lot of things. I&#8217;m really interested in having more of a cabin motorcycle experience than a tiny car experience. The lean is essential to that. It also lets me have high seed turning stability without having to put 1500 lbs of batteries in the floor of my vehicle. My target is &lt;600 lbs. At that benchmark, something perhaps more like the Myers Motors commuter might be in order, but again, I want more of a moto experience but without the expense of an Ecomobile or Monotracer.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing contributor Nate Erickson by Nathaniel Salzman</title>
		<link>http://www.projectstreetliner.com/miscellaneous/introducing-contributor-nate-erickson/comment-page-1/#comment-226</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathaniel Salzman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.projectstreetliner.com/?p=667#comment-226</guid>
		<description>Well I&#039;m open to all ideas at this point. True the Aptera has a terrific shape, but given my modest mpg goals, squeezing every last efficiency percentage out of the aerodynamics isn&#039;t a big part of the appeal for me. Perhaps in follow up projects, but for now, the reduction in frontal area is going to do much more for me in terms of aerodynamic efficiency that body shape will. Not that a teardrop of some sort isn&#039;t requisite, but this project is as much about aesthetics to me as it is efficiency. 

The trioendo is definitely part of the inspiration, but the suspension geometry is actually based much more on the Leanster and the Tilting Motorworks suspension. It will lean organically via counter steer just like the TMW or the Piaggio MP3. I&#039;m not going to try to muscle it in and out of the lean as that&#039;s both unnecessary and improbable given the end weight. 

Glad to have your input!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I&#8217;m open to all ideas at this point. True the Aptera has a terrific shape, but given my modest mpg goals, squeezing every last efficiency percentage out of the aerodynamics isn&#8217;t a big part of the appeal for me. Perhaps in follow up projects, but for now, the reduction in frontal area is going to do much more for me in terms of aerodynamic efficiency that body shape will. Not that a teardrop of some sort isn&#8217;t requisite, but this project is as much about aesthetics to me as it is efficiency. </p>
<p>The trioendo is definitely part of the inspiration, but the suspension geometry is actually based much more on the Leanster and the Tilting Motorworks suspension. It will lean organically via counter steer just like the TMW or the Piaggio MP3. I&#8217;m not going to try to muscle it in and out of the lean as that&#8217;s both unnecessary and improbable given the end weight. </p>
<p>Glad to have your input!</p>
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		<title>Comment on So why is tilting so important? by Zebediah</title>
		<link>http://www.projectstreetliner.com/research/so-why-is-tilting-so-important/comment-page-1/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Zebediah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 06:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.projectstreetliner.com/?p=134#comment-225</guid>
		<description>You can do this if you don&#039;t tilt: http://www.commutercars.com/.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can do this if you don&#8217;t tilt: <a href="http://www.commutercars.com/" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.commutercars.com/?referer=');">http://www.commutercars.com/</a>.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Velomobiles of Flickr by Zebediah</title>
		<link>http://www.projectstreetliner.com/inspiration/the-velomobiles-of-flickr/comment-page-1/#comment-224</link>
		<dc:creator>Zebediah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 05:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.projectstreetliner.com/?p=144#comment-224</guid>
		<description>Velos are cool but the Aptera is a much better benchmark for aerodynamic benchmarks.  It would also be worth a review of Burt Rutan&#039;s aircraft designs for inspiration. 

http://www.aptera.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Velos are cool but the Aptera is a much better benchmark for aerodynamic benchmarks.  It would also be worth a review of Burt Rutan&#8217;s aircraft designs for inspiration. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.aptera.com/" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.aptera.com/?referer=');">http://www.aptera.com/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing contributor Nate Erickson by Zebediah</title>
		<link>http://www.projectstreetliner.com/miscellaneous/introducing-contributor-nate-erickson/comment-page-1/#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator>Zebediah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 05:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.projectstreetliner.com/?p=667#comment-223</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s very nice looking and thanks Nate for your contribution but I prefer the previous design concept.  The bike needs to have enough room to tilt and riffing off of a classic race car is probably the best way to start.  The Tripendo is really an amazing achievement of engineering prowess.  Glad you are using it as the basis of your design.  Do you think this new vehicle will use steering and tilting levers as the Tripendo does?  My impression is that it is able to deliver such high performance because you have complete control over both functions and can learn to use them in concert.

Will help with engineering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s very nice looking and thanks Nate for your contribution but I prefer the previous design concept.  The bike needs to have enough room to tilt and riffing off of a classic race car is probably the best way to start.  The Tripendo is really an amazing achievement of engineering prowess.  Glad you are using it as the basis of your design.  Do you think this new vehicle will use steering and tilting levers as the Tripendo does?  My impression is that it is able to deliver such high performance because you have complete control over both functions and can learn to use them in concert.</p>
<p>Will help with engineering.</p>
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		<title>Comment on More ATV thinking by Aaron...</title>
		<link>http://www.projectstreetliner.com/chassis/more-atv-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-221</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.projectstreetliner.com/?p=647#comment-221</guid>
		<description>Last comment for now. I think you&#039;ll find that the 400 engine is plenty for what you&#039;re doing. There is a highly modded Suzuki Burgman on Eco-Modder that gets very high mpg (~75mpg I think). He runs 75mph on the highway every day and among his modifications were a swap to 250 pistons and carb, and even then he runs in &quot;high&quot; gear almost all the time on his custom 2-speed CVT. Also, the Auto X-Prize looks like its been won (though not crowned yet) by a turbo-charged 125cc motorcycle engine in an 800lb 4-passenger vehicle. With that setup they are able to accelerate 0-60 in under 12 second and maintain highway speed without a problem.

I don&#039;t know how much weight or size you&#039;d save with the 400 compared to the 700, they are probably very similar in fact. But if you&#039;re concerned with mpg at all, the 400 is definately the right choice. Even with hypermiling techniques, the eco-modding Burgman rider found that displacement was the limiting factor in improving mileage and so has bee downsizing his 400 engine to improve his efficiency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last comment for now. I think you&#8217;ll find that the 400 engine is plenty for what you&#8217;re doing. There is a highly modded Suzuki Burgman on Eco-Modder that gets very high mpg (~75mpg I think). He runs 75mph on the highway every day and among his modifications were a swap to 250 pistons and carb, and even then he runs in &#8220;high&#8221; gear almost all the time on his custom 2-speed CVT. Also, the Auto X-Prize looks like its been won (though not crowned yet) by a turbo-charged 125cc motorcycle engine in an 800lb 4-passenger vehicle. With that setup they are able to accelerate 0-60 in under 12 second and maintain highway speed without a problem.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how much weight or size you&#8217;d save with the 400 compared to the 700, they are probably very similar in fact. But if you&#8217;re concerned with mpg at all, the 400 is definately the right choice. Even with hypermiling techniques, the eco-modding Burgman rider found that displacement was the limiting factor in improving mileage and so has bee downsizing his 400 engine to improve his efficiency.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The case for ATV drivetrain by Aaron...</title>
		<link>http://www.projectstreetliner.com/research/the-case-for-atv-drivetrain/comment-page-1/#comment-220</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 16:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.projectstreetliner.com/?p=643#comment-220</guid>
		<description>Yup, after catching up with the rest of your thoughts I agree, since length isn&#039;t a concern for you, it probably isn&#039;t worth moving the engine. If you were to add a passenger seat though I might reconsider that.

To most of your other concerns (suspension, height, heat, etc.) I&#039;d say to have a closer look at the Gurney Gator. seems he solved most of those problems by having the cylinder head between the driver&#039;s legs and only the tail of the tranny sticking down under the seat. His seat height is only 18-20&quot; if I recall, and you really don&#039;t want to get much lower than that for visibility reasons anyway. But he doesn&#039;t have an enclosed cabin to deal with either, so... there are always compromises and what you have now looks as good as any.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup, after catching up with the rest of your thoughts I agree, since length isn&#8217;t a concern for you, it probably isn&#8217;t worth moving the engine. If you were to add a passenger seat though I might reconsider that.</p>
<p>To most of your other concerns (suspension, height, heat, etc.) I&#8217;d say to have a closer look at the Gurney Gator. seems he solved most of those problems by having the cylinder head between the driver&#8217;s legs and only the tail of the tranny sticking down under the seat. His seat height is only 18-20&#8243; if I recall, and you really don&#8217;t want to get much lower than that for visibility reasons anyway. But he doesn&#8217;t have an enclosed cabin to deal with either, so&#8230; there are always compromises and what you have now looks as good as any.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The case for ATV drivetrain by Nathaniel Salzman</title>
		<link>http://www.projectstreetliner.com/research/the-case-for-atv-drivetrain/comment-page-1/#comment-219</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathaniel Salzman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 15:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.projectstreetliner.com/?p=643#comment-219</guid>
		<description>Hi Aaron! 

Thing is, I don&#039;t really look at length as an issue. It&#039;s not any longer than a small car and that doesn&#039;t bother me. Length will mean stability and given that the Monotracer is significantly longer than what I&#039;ve spec&#039;d here, I&#039;m not worried at all. As for moving the engine up front, that has several issues. First, the front suspension box is literally under my feet and there&#039;s no way to stick the motor into the middle of that somehow. So putting the engine in front of me means pushing the front suspension forward, which just makes the vehicle longer, so no real gain there. Second, if I were to put the motor more under me — say under my legs — then I may have shortened up, but I&#039;ve also gotten taller. Height means more frontal area, which means less aerodynamic efficiency. Thirdly, having the engine essentially in the cockpit with me opens up a lot of issues (heat, exhaust leaks into the cabin, etc.) that I&#039;d really just rather avoid. Heat especially. With the engine behind the cabin, I can build a thorough firewall insulating me from both heat and vapor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Aaron! </p>
<p>Thing is, I don&#8217;t really look at length as an issue. It&#8217;s not any longer than a small car and that doesn&#8217;t bother me. Length will mean stability and given that the Monotracer is significantly longer than what I&#8217;ve spec&#8217;d here, I&#8217;m not worried at all. As for moving the engine up front, that has several issues. First, the front suspension box is literally under my feet and there&#8217;s no way to stick the motor into the middle of that somehow. So putting the engine in front of me means pushing the front suspension forward, which just makes the vehicle longer, so no real gain there. Second, if I were to put the motor more under me — say under my legs — then I may have shortened up, but I&#8217;ve also gotten taller. Height means more frontal area, which means less aerodynamic efficiency. Thirdly, having the engine essentially in the cockpit with me opens up a lot of issues (heat, exhaust leaks into the cabin, etc.) that I&#8217;d really just rather avoid. Heat especially. With the engine behind the cabin, I can build a thorough firewall insulating me from both heat and vapor.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The case for ATV drivetrain by Aaron...</title>
		<link>http://www.projectstreetliner.com/research/the-case-for-atv-drivetrain/comment-page-1/#comment-218</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 15:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.projectstreetliner.com/?p=643#comment-218</guid>
		<description>Hey Nathaniel,

Sorry for the long absence. I was on vacation and just got back. Always interesting to read through your well thought thru posts, and I admit I still have a few to go. So if these topics are covered later I apologize in advance. But here goes for now...

Possible solution to both your length and weight distribution issues to be seen in the Gurney Gator motorcycle (Google). Simply said... put the engine ahead of the driver, between his legs. Your weight moves forward, your length shortens because you can then move the swingarm pivot up, and you also gain the side benefit of getting to use a shaft drive engine if you want. Just put the bevel drive from the ATV driveshaft right at the swingarm pivot and put a sprocket on it so you still have a chain final drive.

And yeah... lots of 2 wheel drive atvs out there to be had, especially if you look at the sport quads which are almost all chain drive too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Nathaniel,</p>
<p>Sorry for the long absence. I was on vacation and just got back. Always interesting to read through your well thought thru posts, and I admit I still have a few to go. So if these topics are covered later I apologize in advance. But here goes for now&#8230;</p>
<p>Possible solution to both your length and weight distribution issues to be seen in the Gurney Gator motorcycle (Google). Simply said&#8230; put the engine ahead of the driver, between his legs. Your weight moves forward, your length shortens because you can then move the swingarm pivot up, and you also gain the side benefit of getting to use a shaft drive engine if you want. Just put the bevel drive from the ATV driveshaft right at the swingarm pivot and put a sprocket on it so you still have a chain final drive.</p>
<p>And yeah&#8230; lots of 2 wheel drive atvs out there to be had, especially if you look at the sport quads which are almost all chain drive too.</p>
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